http://www.nationofchange.org/when-half-million-americans-died-and-nobody-noticed-1335533445

Unz makes the point that the users of Vioxx were almost all elderly, and it was not possible to determine whether a particular victim's heart attack had been caused by Vioxx or other factors. But he concludes: "Perhaps 500,000 or more premature American deaths may have resulted from Vioxx (emphasis added), a figure substantially larger than the 3,468 deaths of named individuals acknowledged by Merck during the settlement of its lawsuit. And almost no one among our political or media elites seems to know or care about this possibility."

Too often, the conclusions of inquiries like this are Mercky! We need to be more focused on getting to the real cause of deaths.
There is a blase attitude that has developed in our profit driven society to the detriment of our quality of life.

It as all the products in the USA, any more..
But the Pill corps need to keep making MORE products.  Other wise they (THINK) they cant make mega money.
IF' many of these people could get their money back it would pay most of the final MONIES they will (probably) get in the end.

These corps cant Copyright NATURE(or they would)

Wasn't Vioxx and NSAID?

(google break)

Yup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib

Have you noticed the warnings regarding the NSAIDs that are still on the market? Perhaps there was nothing wrong with Vioxx as a drug, or at least no more wrong with it than any other NSAID. Perhaps the problem was that people were not adequately warned and that it was give to people for whom it was contraindicated.

I don't know about that half million deaths. The evidence in the article, while moderately convincing, is still somewhat circumstantial. It's merely noting that the deaths increased and decreased with the introduction and withdrawal of Vioxx. That's a powerful argument, but is still a bit post hoc ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not prove causation. It also would fail to note that once Vioxx made the news all other NSAID use was also reconsidered and strong warnings were issued about all of them. So, reduced use of other NSAIDs may also have been a factor.

Anyway, I don't really have much of a point in this, except to say look carefully at the data. There may be many messages in it.

For my part, I would not have made it to the mountain gorillas without self-medicating with Vioxx. I had gotten severe knee pain during the very steep hiking in the Nyungwe forest. I self-medicated with Vioxx that my wife had for sciatica and was fine on the almost as steep and higher altitude hikes to the gorillas. So, despite the misuse, overuse, and deaths, I will always have a slight soft sport in my heart (and knees) for the drug.

Had I died from it, of course, my feelings would be very different (i.e. non-existent).

The comment I need to make, is all these NEW ADVERTED drugs that are pushed onto us...
that after 10 years, end up going to the lawyers..
I THOUGHT, testing was supposed to be done BEFORE release..

Im tired of being a BETA TESTER..

The comment I need to make, is all these NEW ADVERTED drugs that are pushed onto us...
that after 10 years, end up going to the lawyers..
I THOUGHT, testing was supposed to be done BEFORE release..

Im tired of being a BETA TESTER..

Actually, I have no problem using humans as beta testers. The only thing I require is that they know they're beta testers. I think at the point at which a drug is about to be tested on great apes, we should skip the non-human apes and go straight to the human apes.

Here's why.

Great apes of the non-human varieties are very smart. But, they're not so smart that they understand what they're doing in a medical test. So, it's pure torture for them. First, they are given horrible diseases. Then they are poked and prodded and tested all without any explanation that they can understand. And, it's all to avoid putting humans at risk too early in the process. Further, the non-human apes are treated with no decency at all. They are kept in horrifically small cages, all alone, which is torture for any social animal.

Well, here's the thing. When humans want to cure a debilitating disease, humans will volunteer. Humans for a control group who don't have the disease, if such a group is required, will likely line up for the opportunity to help. These will be family members or loved ones of people with incurable diseases who are hoping for some cure for their close relative of loved one.

Humans with the disease will be many times more numerous than can be used in the test. These will be people who have lost hope and are looking to some new cure for their illness. They will fully understand and accept the risks. These are the people who will actually be helped if a cure can be found.

If the humans necessary for the test are not lining up around the block to be part of this study, then perhaps the condition to be cured is not a real condition or is not severe enough to warrant the risk of the new drug or treatment. Examples would be things like restless leg syndrome, female impotence, and other non-conditions that the drug manufacturers create in order to sell their drug that is otherwise completely unnecessary. High risk cures for baldness and impotence will likely also fall into this category.

So, this will be a powerful limitation on the drug companies require them to cure real conditions that afflict real people rather than creating the disease and drug together. Similarly, when there is already a good drug on the market, even if the patent is expiring, people will be unlikely to line up to take part in a study for the replacement drug for the one on which the patent has expired.

So, we will have the positive effect of ending cruelty to our nearest animal relatives while at the same time limiting the drug companies and preventing them from causing more harm than good by continually creating new, sometimes more dangerous or less effective, drugs to replace the old proven ones.

Excellent news Obtuser. I believe the U.S. is the last or one of the last countries still using chimps in medical research. I'd love to see a similar release done here.

Jane Goodall told a story at a lecture at the American Museum of Natural History that I attended. She was walking through a medical lab and saw a chimp in a small cage signing in American Sign Language over and over again. Two words.

Help me!

Apparently the chimp had been home raised during the 70s when well-intentioned people made the huge mistake of trying to find out whether chimps raised as humans would essentially be human. Of course not. Many were subjected to horrible fates, such as medical research, when they reached sexual maturity and became aggressive.

The chimp in that cage probably thought of him or herself as human, or close enough to it. That chimp had known love and family. Then torture. Unending unexplained torture. Just retelling the story is heartbreaking to me. You should have seen the pain in Jane Goodall's face as she told the story.

I call:  "SHENANIGANS!"

Just a little bit too Walt Disney for me to believe a chimp would sign "Help Me."  I didn't snope it, but this is as close as I got on google in 10 minutes:  http://www.sciencemag.org/content/282/5397/2184.full  (open article and word search for help)

Paraphrased:  She looked into the chimps eyes and saw won't you help me?

I think all animals, including our fellow man, deserve a minimal amount of respect, because to disrespect them damages ourselves.  But let's be real?

I call:  "SHENANIGANS!"

Just a little bit too Walt Disney for me to believe a chimp would sign "Help Me."  I didn't snope it, but this is as close as I got on google in 10 minutes:  http://www.sciencemag.org/content/282/5397/2184.full  (open article and word search for help)

Paraphrased:  She looked into the chimps eyes and saw won't you help me?

I think all animals, including our fellow man, deserve a minimal amount of respect, because to disrespect them damages ourselves.  But let's be real?

Well, you're either calling me a liar or you're calling Jane Goodall a liar. She told that story at a lecture I attended. This is not an urban myth. There are a number of chimps, the most famous of which was named Washoe who were raised in people's homes and taught sign language.

Possible she made a mistake telling a first hand story? I doubt it. Possible I got it wrong, yes. But, the things we remember most clearly are those with strong emotion. I remember this very clearly.

Why do you find it so hard to believe? What part is incredible? A chimp who signs? A chimp who could sign and was locked in a cage signing "help me"?

Come on. Seriously. Why is this at all difficult to believe?

Here's a video about Washoe teaching her son sign language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55put3MLZcw

Seriously bobbo. The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy. Give it up.

What I find implausible is it could happen and not be documented.

Yes, no doubt Jane got carried away as most apes do.  Embellishing a story as you get tired of repeating the truth over and over.  I caught myself doing that in my professional work.  I was stumped.  why, Why, WHY did I report something that wasn't true for no advantage at all? .... I came to the conclusion I was indeed just tired of saying the same thing over and over.....and I made a vow to myself not to do that again.  And I kept it.

Such a nice story though isn't it?

What I find implausible is it could happen and not be documented.

Yes, no doubt Jane got carried away as most apes do.  Embellishing a story as you get tired of repeating the truth over and over.  I caught myself doing that in my professional work.  I was stumped.  why, Why, WHY did I report something that wasn't true for no advantage at all? .... I came to the conclusion I was indeed just tired of saying the same thing over and over.....and I made a vow to myself not to do that again.  And I kept it.

Such a nice story though isn't it?

There are a plethora of Google links on chimpanzees using American Sign Language, but this Wikipedia one is sufficient:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washoe_%28chimpanzee%29
You owe Ms. Jane Goodall an apology! Then go flagellate thyself with your incorrect USB cable!

Obtuser--I skimmed and word searched on "help" which did not appear.  Once again, you appear to be absolutely correct and totally irrelevant.  Once again, I offer to direct your attention more closely if you cannot identify your error yourself.

Two in a row.

Not amusing anymore.

What I find implausible is it could happen and not be documented.

Yes, no doubt Jane got carried away as most apes do.  Embellishing a story as you get tired of repeating the truth over and over.  I caught myself doing that in my professional work.  I was stumped.  why, Why, WHY did I report something that wasn't true for no advantage at all? .... I came to the conclusion I was indeed just tired of saying the same thing over and over.....and I made a vow to myself not to do that again.  And I kept it.

Such a nice story though isn't it?

For what purpose would it be documented? It's nothing new in chimp behavior to use sign language. Once they learn it, that is just the way they communicate. Chimps who have learned to sign communicate with each other with sign language. It's just not a scientifically interesting occurrence.

Regarding Jane Goodall, you do know who she is, right? You do know that she has four decades (then three, since the lecture was about a decade ago) of experience carefully documenting chimp behavior and has become quite famous for her ability to do so.

Here's a documented case of a chimp who was home-raised and later transferred to a medical research facility. Note that he continued to communicate via sign language even in the facility and later when he was given a better life.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/20/138467156/project-nim-a-chimps-very-human-very-sad-life

Would you find it so implausible that this chimp might have signed "help me"? I don't know if it was this particular chimp about which Jane was speaking. She did not name the chimp at the lecture.

You owe Ms. Jane Goodall an apology! Then go flagellate thyself with your incorrect USB cable!

ROFL!! (And, that's Dr. Jane Goodall.)