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  Re: Cancer
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 06:59:24 PM » by Obtuser
Scotty, I think this is what ECA is referring to:
Time - The Movie

Time the movie, written by Craig Nachsin, directed by Rob Horwitz, and
photographed by Bill Simone is an independent film with an emotional story that
will ...
http://www.timethefilm.com/

I have not seen it, so cannot comment!
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What are you worrying for? You are not getting out of this life alive, dead don't hurt, getting there might, and in some cases, damn well should!
 Plus during and after the next Ice Age, all of this infrastructure around us won't matter squat!

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2012, 03:52:54 PM » by ECA
Umm,
no..

Im talking about TIME..REAL time, cut down into increments..

WE base many things on RECORDED TIME, but time(in spacial reality) continues..  Its the same idea that the END of the world will kill all of HUMANS, but probably NOT the planet itself.
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2012, 07:20:32 PM » by Misanthropic Scott
Umm,
no..

Im talking about TIME..REAL time, cut down into increments..

WE base many things on RECORDED TIME, but time(in spacial reality) continues..  Its the same idea that the END of the world will kill all of HUMANS, but probably NOT the planet itself.

For me, end of the world means when the sun engulfs our planet.

The end of humanity would start with civilizational collapse and end with human extinction, probably in an extinction event like the P/T extinction 250 MYA. But, yes, the rock on which we live would continue to be habitable for a few multicellular species and would later heal and support life as varied and complex as today's life, just very different life and probably after 50 million years or so.

Then there's end of the universe, which will be the big rip.

So, "end of the world" can have many meanings depending on which one of these events you consider to be the end. I would use the definitions above, personally.

end of world == end of all life on the planet
end of humanity == our extinction
end of universe == the big rip

Any objection to using these going forward?

That said. I have not heard anything indicating a theory that involves time quanta. Nor have I heard of any way to truly review the frames of time. And, I certainly have heard nothing about how to fast forward and view the future. Viewing history either by watching old movies or reading old scrolls is essentially looking at a photograph that has survived into the current time. It is not truly looking back in time but rather looking at documentation of the time made in that time as it appears today.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. -- from moveon.org.

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 08:24:10 PM » by Obtuser
Is TIME not that reality of living heart beat by heart beat? It is that experience of continuing consciousness unending until death cancels it! But relative Time is that which is measured against such events like the revolution of our Planet, the distance which Light travels relative to the orbit of our Planet around our Star the Sun. But it is also the mental memory of the passage of experiences into our memories, and that can be distorted by various emotions, drugs, and perceived pressures/deadlines, and goals, etc.!
Logged

What are you worrying for? You are not getting out of this life alive, dead don't hurt, getting there might, and in some cases, damn well should!
 Plus during and after the next Ice Age, all of this infrastructure around us won't matter squat!

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 03:52:02 AM » by Misanthropic Scott
If there were no life in the universe, would there still be time? If a man speaks in the forest and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. -- from moveon.org.

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2012, 05:28:03 AM » by bobbo
You all KNOW what I'm going to say..... Its definitional.  I don't know about these physicists:  thinking they know everything?  WHY couldn't time exist before space?  If we have a word for a concept, does the concept not exist?  Especially a concept that is purely definitional?  Time before the big bang.  Its call "Space/Time" but ... oh hell, who am I kidding.  How does time from the standpoint of quantum physics qualify time in the context of general relativity?  Or does it?

But my bonus:  one of the songs I like best for a variety of reasons, not that well known I think:  time:  the magic length of God.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY1annEsQRE&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Its a passage from the second most favorite book of all time by Lenard Cohen:  Beautiful Losers.  And Cohen is thought of as a song writer?  HAH!!!!

« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 05:36:44 AM by bobbo »
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  Re: Cancer
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2012, 10:00:46 AM » by Obtuser
You all KNOW what I'm going to say..... Its definitional.  I don't know about these physicists:  thinking they know everything?  WHY couldn't time exist before space?  If we have a word for a concept, does the concept not exist?  Especially a concept that is purely definitional?  Time before the big bang.  Its call "Space/Time" but ... oh hell, who am I kidding.  How does time from the standpoint of quantum physics qualify time in the context of general relativity?  Or does it?

But my bonus:  one of the songs I like best for a variety of reasons, not that well known I think:  time:  the magic length of God.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY1annEsQRE&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Its a passage from the second most favorite book of all time by Lenard Cohen:  Beautiful Losers.  And Cohen is thought of as a song writer?  HAH!!!!

Ignoring the Red Herring for a moment, aka Lenard Cohen [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen], Time and Space do not exist with out consciousness! Hence it is immaterial if the tree falls in the forest or if a man swears in the forest and offends a woman, because without consciousness aka mental neural activity recorded in a brain's cells of any higher mammalian life form, it does not exist [it is not registered!]
Definitional maybe, but that too is reality!
Logged

What are you worrying for? You are not getting out of this life alive, dead don't hurt, getting there might, and in some cases, damn well should!
 Plus during and after the next Ice Age, all of this infrastructure around us won't matter squat!

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2012, 01:15:01 PM » by ECA
dONT YOU LOVE THE DEFINITIONAL Human, mammalian, ideal of consciousness??
It couldnt be reptile, it couldnt be amebian, It couldnt even be the Conscious of the universe..
A HUMAN, had to be there to SEE/HEAR/IDENTIFY IT and pass the word onto OTHERS of his own group..
THEN even the OTHER humans would still think it wasnt true(look into history about this) until a FLOCK of humans AGAIN saw it and we Academical and SCHOOLED to be Just as IDIOTIC as the first person.

Does a BEAR SPIT in the woods??  NOT until we see him do it..AND THEN, not all bears spit in the woods..
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2012, 04:10:18 PM » by bobbo
Obtuser--under any definition, you are wrong.  Consciousness does not spring from nothingness==and if it did, there would be nothing to comprehend therefor no consciousness.  No--consciousness evolves from chemical process found in space and time.  Unless you slurp from the soda fountains of various religions but even they are not definitional but are rather dogmatic.
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  Re: Cancer
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2012, 06:25:59 PM » by Misanthropic Scott
bobbo,

It's all definitional ... which is why I defined my terms above.

Interestingly, religion (or, more accurately, theistic religion in particular) posits that consciousness is caused by consciousness. How's that again? I missed something.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. -- from moveon.org.

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2012, 08:22:45 PM » by Obtuser
Obtuser--under any definition, you are wrong.  Consciousness does not spring from nothingness==and if it did, there would be nothing to comprehend therefor no consciousness.  No--consciousness evolves from chemical process found in space and time.  Unless you slurp from the soda fountains of various religions but even they are not definitional but are rather dogmatic.

Aw Bull Crap, Boffo. Without consciousness you don't know nothin'. And, yes, consciousness is a chemical reaction, but it is in the brain of the organisms. There are different degrees of consciousness of course, but that too is academic. Nothingness does not exist if there isn't any consciousness, and if there is consciousness there is only something not nothing! So don't pull that straw out the manure!
Logged

What are you worrying for? You are not getting out of this life alive, dead don't hurt, getting there might, and in some cases, damn well should!
 Plus during and after the next Ice Age, all of this infrastructure around us won't matter squat!

  Re: Cancer
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2012, 04:30:38 AM » by bobbo
Well, at least I have a straw.  and I prefer that straw over your position.

I agree with what you say:  "Without consciousness you don't know nothin'." But the subject was: whether or not time and space exist without "our consciousness."  Its idiot simple that it does.  It did before I was born, and will after.  Same with ALL conscious/self aware/sentient beings.  Time and space exist outside our own existence/awareness.  Our "knowing" only exists with us but that is a separate issue.

Obtuser falls once again, if he ever gets out of it, a massive fail of conflation.  Actually a lack of awareness, but totally within time and space.

Amusing.
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 (Read 2874 times) 1 [2]
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