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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2008, 03:56:25 AM » by KD Martin
Couldn't you just record some elephants to get the really low notes?
The Elephant Listening Project

The problem is in the playback, not the recording. I guess one could set up a series of low pass filters on the output, connected to electrically operated sticks which would poke the appropriate elephant, which would then sound the right note. Can't imagine what my gf would say about that, though.


I don't need a picture for that.  Your description conjures a mental image I'd just as soon forget -- elephants in tuxedos lined up in the Mort or Bass hall, all ready to sing that really low note on cue (or prod).

Now who needs a beer?

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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2008, 04:02:11 AM » by Peter R
I don't need a picture for that.  Your description conjures a mental image I'd just as soon forget -- elephants in tuxedos lined up in the Mort or Bass hall, all ready to sing that really low note on cue (or prod).

Now that would really be something to see. Or hear. Or possibly avoid.

Quote
Now who needs a beer?

Thanks - make mine a large one!
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Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 05:47:38 AM » by Misanthropic Scott
Couldn't you just record some elephants to get the really low notes?
The Elephant Listening Project
The problem is in the playback, not the recording.

Of course. I realized that somewhere between home when I typed that and work (now). So, the right answer is to have a live large bull elephant in your living room, on the assumption that it's the large bulls that make the lowest sounds, actually infrasound.

This will solve two problems, with the largest elephants at about 9 meters long, about 28' or so, you've cut the length in half from the length of that pipe at 64'. The second problem is solved by the fact that your girlfriend actually might like the company of a male elephant. Have you seen an elephant in musth? Not everything that looks like a trunk is one. The downside is that this may cause you to give up any delusions of glandeur and settle for delusions of adequacy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09fsUJ_i66I
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 06:09:44 AM » by Peter R
The second problem is solved by the fact that your girlfriend actually might like the company of a male elephant. Have you seen an elephant in musth? Not everything that looks like a trunk is one. The downside is that this may cause you to give up any delusions of glandeur and settle for delusions of adequacy.

I have discussed your idea with my girlfriend. Her initial reaction was that it sounded "interesting." However, she owns a bar, and she decided she had enough trouble as it is with customers trying to pick her up without having to put up with more of the same at home. She has therefore imposed a total ban on all types of pipes, organ or mammalian, in the living room or anywhere else where she might happen to be.
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Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 06:32:17 AM » by KD Martin
"delusions of glandeur"

Har!
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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 05:32:25 PM » by Rudy
Hey Rudy, glad you're back!

I've never used a Squeezebox, but it sounds intriguing.  Maybe you could post some review links.

I haven't read any reviews on it other than what is posted on Amazon.  But, a couple of the guys I hang out with at a music/audio forum use them, and have put a lot of time into ripping thousands of their CDs onto a server, and using a Squeezebox or two around the house, wirelessly networked, to connect them all together.  For me right now, it would solve the problem of storage space, and convenience...but doesn't solve the problem of having money to afford it.  Grin

Any recommendations for transfer of high quality vinyl to HDD (and from there to CD, mp3 etc.) would be welcome.

My ear is a bit tricky, and I am bothered by the side-effects of some digital software.   My key to making good transfers it to get it into the computer at a high bitrate (24 bit, at 96kHz), do any editing or cleanup at that level, then downsample it to 16 bit, 44.1kHz for CD.  If you do your editing at higher bitrates, you reduce a lot of rounding errors.  It's the bit depth that is important:  if you figure a sampling rate of 96kHz is twice as good as 48kHz, a 24-bit sample is actually 256 times as good as 16-bit.  (Each additional bit doubles the amount of information.) 

For editing, I use Sonic Foundry's Sound Forge, and use the Waves plugins for click and crackle reduction.  Have to use them very lightly so they do not clip off the transients on percussive sounds.  I don't bother reducing hiss--any hiss filter I've tried has added a lot of unwanted side effects.  And I avoid digital EQ except in extreme conditions.  If I do use it, I use parametric EQ...and the key is to make your adjustments, listen to them a few times, tweak some more, then cut your EQ moves in half.  (If you adjusted something -2dB, then reduce it to -1dB...it's an old engineering trick.)  And only use EQ subtractive--in other words, don't use it to boost, only to cut. 

I do tend to play back clean vinyl, though--I do have a record vacuum, and a couple of record cleaning solutions I use. One is RRL (Record Research Labs), and the other is Vinyl-Zyme (which helps if a record may have been subjected to mold/mildew).  As for something really drastic, don't laugh: I've actually spread a thick layer of Elmer's wood glue over the side of a record, let it dry 24 hours, and peeled it off in a sheet!  And it worked great!    I'd only use it as a last-ditch effort though...this LP was an A&M Audiophile reissue of Supertramp's "Breakfast in America" that someone sent me for free--it had been cleaned on a record vacuum a couple of times but still had some low-level grunge in the grooves.  The glue treatment got rid of most of it, and it plays really nice!

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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2008, 05:37:30 PM » by Rudy
Peter R, I know what you mean.  I've one recording of Also Sprach Zarathustra with the opening organ note faithfully reproduced.  But the B&W THX cert 15" subwoofers just laugh at it -- go on, they say, do your worst.

It'll flat out shake the dual glass panes right out of the windows and doors.

What is that, about 20 Hz?  Makes my eyeballs shake.  FSM bless your neighbors!  Cheesy

How long did it take you rip 1000+ CDs?  Good Grief!

I remember the rendering of Also Sprach Zarathustra from "2001" starting with a pretty good organ bass note. Without knowing which organ was used (they're all different, which is one of the things that makes them interesting), it was probably a 32 ft stop, there being very few real 64 ft stops in the world; the bottom note (CCCC) would be 16.35 Hz. The bottom note of a 64 ft stop would be half that (double the length of a pipe and you go down an octave). My Creative set-up obviously can't provide a faithful reproduction (the spec claims it goes down to 25 Hz) but it does well enough. Probably the only way to reproduce notes that low would be to use a real pipe, but my girlfriend would certainly object to a 64 ft pipe in the living room.

I didn't sit down to rip all 1000 CDs in one go. It took several months, whenever I had the time. There are still 50 or so waiting, which I'll do real soon now.


One subwoofer line I've read a lot of good things about are Hsu Research.  Not widely known, but Dr. Hsu (not related to Dr. Wu, of Steely Dan fame) used to have tube-shaped subwoofers that easily went down to about 16Hz.  Even his latest line of subs have a -3dB point of 18Hz...I would not mind a pair of those in the living room.  Grin

I have an RCA Living Stereo SACD of "Zarathustra", but since the bass is a bit diffuse, I couldn't tell if it was CCC or CCCC (seems like my cheaper subwoofer picks up a CCC fundamental, but it could be doubling it). 
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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2008, 06:58:30 AM » by KD Martin
Even his latest line of subs have a -3dB point of 18Hz...I would not mind a pair of those in the living room.

I've the predecessor to these - 1Kwatt each (x2),  down 6db at 14 Hz.  ±3dB 18Hz - 31 / 110Hz adjustable (EQ at A)

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1551

I've never heard better, including some that price out at 10x more.  Some may throw more, but none are as smooth throughout 16Hz-40Hz, or have the headroom, as far as as a spectrum analyzer (and better yet, my ears) can tell.  I'll bet I don't use more than 10% of the 1KW.

Cripes, I ought to be a shill for Bowers & Wilkins.  If I had the room (and the dough), I'd get the Nautilus series.

What orchestra / conductor is that "Also Sprach Zarathustra" SACD you have?  Are you with me Dr. Wu?  I'm just an ordinary guy, reelin' in the years.

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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2008, 11:01:40 AM » by Rudy
What orchestra / conductor is that "Also Sprach Zarathustra" SACD you have?

Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony Orch.  I don't have it in front of me, but it dates back to the late 50s. 

Are you with me Dr. Wu?  I'm just an ordinary guy, reelin' in the years.

Great story by Denny Dias on the Steely Dan website, about their problems mixing down the Katy Lied album, and faulty dbx decoders... Wink
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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2008, 01:14:56 PM » by hhopper

How about a link?  I searched around and couldn't find the article you referenced.

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“The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.” –Humphrey Bogart

  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2008, 01:50:44 PM » by KD Martin

How about a link?  I searched around and couldn't find the article you referenced.



Here's an interesting story by Denny:

http://www.steelydan.com/dennys.html

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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 02:00:16 PM » by hhopper

Har.  That was good.  Thanks Rudy and KD.

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“The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.” –Humphrey Bogart

  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2008, 02:41:45 PM » by KD Martin
I cheated.  My brother in law played with Steely Dan (and some studio work with them) and another lifelong friend (emmy award sound guy) has mixed them.  One of Becker / Fagen's bass players, Wilton Felder, lived near our neck of the woods here in DFW.

I've had the pleasure of seeing them play live, many times in many venues here in TX.  One of my favorite bands.  And there may be a new album in the works!!


« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 02:47:59 PM by KD Martin »
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  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2008, 03:22:12 PM » by hhopper

Yeah, I've got a bunch of Steely Dan CDs and a couple of Donald Fagen CD's too.

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“The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.” –Humphrey Bogart

  Re: How do you listen to music?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2008, 05:06:48 PM » by Misanthropic Scott
I like the Dan of Steel too. Hmm. No wait. I mean Steely Dan. I'll leave the Dans of Steel to those with other sexual interests.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

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