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  An unconventional safe landing
« on: March 18, 2009, 02:17:16 AM » by John E. Quantum
This happened last weekend in the DC area. This technology may have saved the lives of the pilot and some people on the ground. Kind of like training wheels on a bicycle. Just don't pull the handle unless absolutely necessary.

 





« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 02:16:44 PM by hhopper »
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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 03:51:41 AM » by Misanthropic Scott
Safe? Apparently. But, not very repeatable. I agree that it's for last resort only. Once used, in most cases, the pilot should NOT go out and buy a new plane, I'm guessing. Perhaps KD or BubbaRay will have a different opinion. Seems to me that, except in highly unusual cases, this landing technique is a good indicator of bad piloting. Correct me if I'm wrong. Oh yeah, and it wastes perfectly good airplanes.

I wonder if the manufacturer is looking into a way to keep the plane level and falling slowly enough to land on the wheels. If so, then all natural selection will be removed from piloting.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 09:15:32 AM » by Mr Gilly
New York Yankees pitcher, Cory Lidle owned and died in his Sirrus SR-20 along with his flight instructor. Why they did not deploy the parachute safety device remains unknown.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/11/plane.crash/index.html

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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 11:38:17 AM » by KD Martin
I can think of a few uses for a parachute, but I'd be loathe to use one in case 1:

  • Super-populated areas where there is no open road, river or runway within gliding range.
  • Very mountainous terrain where gliding to forest / clearing or open / level ground is not an option.
  • Ocean, where gliding to land is not an option (dual engine out), ditching is difficult, I'd rather float down at a few fps forward speed than 100 kts. flare.



Between us, we've had too many engine-outs, and have never even flattened a tire.  From contaminated fuel to unforecast icing, it's never any fun.  Engine failures, airframe failures, control surface failures (ever had one flap deploy without the other?), avionics failures, thank goodness at least never a fire.

What's a parachute going to do for you in fire?

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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 12:19:52 PM » by Misanthropic Scott
What's a parachute going to do for you in fire?

Ensure that you have time to become at least medium rare before hitting the ground?
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 10:24:48 PM » by KD Martin
What's a parachute going to do for you in fire?

Ensure that you have time to become at least medium rare before hitting the ground?

Not funny.  I put out one fire quickly by diving at the ground and exceeding the redline for the airframe.  I was more worried about the windscreen collapsing and coming into the cockpit than the wings or empennage tearing off.

Fire was out, made a safe landing at a small airport, right engine / cowl damage exceeded $10K.  Stupid fuel pump, which was offline immediately during the fire checklist and subsequent safe landing.

So, I've never had an airframe on fire.  An engine compartment, but not an airframe.



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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2009, 07:05:43 AM » by Misanthropic Scott
What's a parachute going to do for you in fire?

Ensure that you have time to become at least medium rare before hitting the ground?

Not funny. 

I wasn't really joking on that one, despite the tone. Your story actually makes me think I'm right. I hadn't thought about using speed to "blow out the candle". Great thinking on your part, and the wish obviously worked since you're still here blogging. I wonder how many pilots have the level of brain power you do to apply to such a situation. I'm no pilot. I doubt soiling my shorts would actually put out the fire, though it might be all I could manage in that situation. Good thinking on your part.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 09:08:14 AM » by seanb
When I was an Appy my boss Phil came in one afternoon white as a sheet. He had been on a flight in the Drakensberg and a fire warning light came on, and stayed on. He looked up though the door and saw the smoke, so it was not a failed fire sensor ( pretty common). The pilots landed on the nearest ground that was nearest to level and big enough, This apparently was basically a patch of ground about the size of a parking bay, sloped at about 30 degrees. The pilots planted the chopper there and glued it to the ground until Phil found rocks big enough to chock the tyres, then shut down and popped the fire bottle. Turned out a hydraulic pipe had burst, and the oil was spraying on the exhaust area of one turbine.

They radio'd for another chopper to bring them the hose, some spanners and a lot of oil, changed the pipe ( Phil again, he worked that day!) and flew back about 2 hours later. Funny thing is that Phil was going to take us 3 appies on that flight, but stores had just gotten yellow and black paint in, and we were busy painting barber stripes thoughout the hanger that day.. Road marking yellow, a paint that literally dries on the brush if you are not ultra fast.

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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2009, 09:43:13 AM » by Mr Gilly




The most unconventional landing I am aware of was in WW2. It is well known that you can not land a Lancaster Bomber on less than 3 of the 4 engines under power. My best friend's uncle did it on one. He had been over Germany on a run when they encountered much flak. When back over England he had the remaining living crew parachute to safety and he proceeded to land it on only one engine. At the end of the runway the remains of this machine collapsed around him, so he crawled out. It did not burn only because it was out of gas!

After WW2 this pilot used his veterans stipend to attend university and became a United Church Minister.

He also farmed on the side. The Pickering Nuclear Power Plant was built on that farm after he sold it to a developer.

The Rev. Billy McKay kept his animals and moved to a new farm up by Myrtle, Ont. including The Horse Called Funny, which he wrote a grade school reading primer about years earlier. Funny lived to over 18 and Billy into his mid nineties. I believe that the current Minister of Defense is related!

There are still 2 working Lancasters. One is at the Hamilton Warplane Museum and is a major exhibit at Hamilton International Airport. Nothing shakes the air and the ground like a Lanc under full power!

http://www.warplane.com/Planetalk/Appeal%20Lancaster%20Grounded.html




« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 03:45:00 PM by hhopper »
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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 10:50:47 AM » by KD Martin
You can land a brick (all engines out) if:

a) you have sufficient forward airspeed and space to set her down.

b) it has an airframe that hasn't been consumed by shells or fire.

A Lancaster can land as a glider if need be, it's the results that matter --  all living creatures get out safely with minimal injury. That, by definition, is a good landing.

Mr. Gilly, I'll take the B-52.  Can you believe it's 1950's vintage?  My cousin flew right seat for 4 years and now has a cushy charter business from Fla. to the Bahamas.



The only airframe I know of with crosswind landing gear -- just a few degrees to starboard, will ya'?




« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 11:03:34 AM by KD Martin »
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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 03:47:56 PM » by hhopper
© 2009 John C. Dvorak's Cage Match

Watching a B-52 takeoff is one of the more spectacular things to see... especially from a too short runway with the JATO bottles screaming.

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“The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.” –Humphrey Bogart

  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 04:13:01 PM » by Mr Gilly
Back during the Cold War with Russia, I lived under the flyway. A squadron at altitude leaves the clear blue yonder with multiple contrails like the lines on a reverse scribbler page! CFB Cold Lake was another 100 miles North so we never knew if any of our fighter jets would join up and ride shotgun!
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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2009, 01:31:13 AM » by KD Martin
My kid lives about 10 mi. N of Carswell AFB, Ft. Worth.  Some days the "sound of freedom" can drive you batty, with the fighters and BUFFs haggling over the approaches and runways.  Don't forget, Lockheed Martin isn't far from Carswell, and the F-35 (and F-16s) take off and land on their private runway.  Now that's a sight to see.  Some days the chopper traffic is enough to drive you crazy, too.




« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 01:36:24 AM by KD Martin »
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  Re: An unconventional safe landing
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 05:17:51 AM » by hhopper
© 2009 John C. Dvorak's Cage Match

It used to be exciting around here when MacDill AFB had fighter jets stationed there.  Now the only planes there are hurricane hunters.

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“The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.” –Humphrey Bogart

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