Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths
From: Denverpost.com



Please click this link to read details of the various Myths listed below.

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By Rhonda Hackett
Posted: 06/07/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT

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Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.

Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system. Opponents of such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of America's health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.

As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.

Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.

Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.

Myth: There aren't enough doctors in Canada.

During the U.S. debate on universal health care, it seems appropriate to inject at least a tiny note of truth into the unending cacophony of deliberate misinformation coming from doctors, HMOs and others, who all profit insanely from the current U.S. system

Thanks Cináed! I knew all of those were myths. I'll read the article later when I have more time. I'm looking forward to it. Being well-informed is the best way too be ready for doing battle with the idiots and sheeple of the world. In a battle of wits it is always best to come armed.

Later I'll check to see if this makes it into yet another health care debate on DU as well.

Thanks Cináed! I knew all of those were myths. I'll read the article later when I have more time. I'm looking forward to it. Being well-informed is the best way too be ready for doing battle with the idiots and sheeple of the world. In a battle of wits it is always best to come armed.

Later I'll check to see if this makes it into yet another health care debate on DU as well.

You're very welcome. It's possible Eideard may post something on his own blog and such articles often seem to eventually make their way over to Dvorak Uncensored as well.

In fact, you can often pre-arm yourself for the fracas on DU by checking out Eideard's blog.

I read this article and as a Canadian I can say health care in Canada is "fine", there are problems but it's OK. We spend much less than the US per capita and it shows. Bottom line, you get what you pay for. I think the article described it as "socialized insurance" rather than "socialized healthcare" - and I think that's accurate.

There is one big myth for US health care which everyone seems to miss: US healthcare is mainly privately funded. The US is #1 in private spending per capita on health care, but it is #3 in public spending per capita. The actual dollar amounts spent on public vs private is about even. There is a very large public sector in the US with things like the Medicare and the VA (government payroll doctors) which everyone ignores in the current debate. I have no idea why.

let me say 1 interesting thing..

In the USA, you can work over 40 hours per week, NOT get benefits(because you work more then 1 job, mostly), NOT get medical coverage(because you make to much), catch a bad FLEW, or have an accident and end up BROKE..
You can be on social security...and NOT be covered by Medicare(in most cases you ARNT covered), and go to the hospital and end up BROKE and paying for it the rest of your life, if not Loosing all that you OWN, because AFTER you die, medicare has the RIGHTS to take your property to pay back for your medical AFTER you are dead.

MOST parents would like to HELP advance there children..even in death, by passing on property and goods...NOT if you are on STATE OR FEDERAL medical assistance..  State and feds get the FIRST BYTE after you die..

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

WOW, and I underestimated at 70-80%

If you look at the medical BUSINESS..
it is STUPID how things are done.

See it this way...YOU CANT BUY DIRECT for a maker of a product..
the maker sells to a company that sells only X(this is a # from 10-100) product at a time..  who ADDs to the price by 10-50%.
The Company that BUYS those X products MAY be able to sell 1 product at a time, but also adds 10-50% to the price of a product..
THEN comes the retailer that you can buy from, who also ADDs its % to the product price.  And that 40% off sale, isnt hurting the retailer.

In the Hospital business..its almost the same..

A company gathers GOODS from many places and is MORE of a storage company..  they gather from all the makers at COST..
the products SIT THERE until someone needs it.
the Hospital or Doctor ORDERS from these companies..
The storage company tends to cover its loss by Doubling and tripling the prices, for goods that arent always sold ALL THE TIME...They CORNER products(they take ALL the goods 1 maker has so OTHERS cant get/use it) so that the Doctors and hospitals have to BUY ONLY from that supplier, and the supplier can FORCE the price up, even tho they got it at a CHEAP rate, (because they BOUGHT OUT the product from the maker)..  Same goes with Imported goods..

AND I havnt even touched on HMO/medical insurance..  the BIG company that is BETWEEN YOU and the doctor..  That YOU ARE PAYING about 100 other people, before your DOLLAR even gets to the Doctor..  the company has to decide IF they pay the doctor, will they pay the employee..  YES, there are people in the HMO that get paid for saying NO' to paying your medical bill.  THINK ABOUT THAT.

Like Scott, I will read the article later. But there is one point that I would like to mention now. Many doctors have left Canada to practice in the USA over the years when things looked greener in that other pasture! Most have them have returned to Canada, disillusioned because they found that in many cases those lucrative salaries do not materialize.....why? Because many Americans can not afford to pay their bills for one reason or another.

 But in Canada, the doctor bills the Provincial Healthcare Organization which is co-funded by the Federal government and in most cases they get paid if the bill submitted is legitimate and conforms to the current schedule set up and agreed to between the Doctors' Assoc. and the Gov't. That is a major difference between the two systems right there!

This same situation does not occur with the nurses, but again many return to Canada after working in the USA for a few years. Each industry has its own problems, but with the doctors there is a huge problem of uncollected and uncollectable invoices!

And here the public sector doctors are on strike........

IF''
BIG BIG IF'
we could clean up the system in the USA, the cost of medical would DROP 50% over night..

IF''
BIG BIG IF'
we could clean up the system in the USA, the cost of medical would DROP 50% over night..

It would be nice if Americans at least got a chance to ensure collective access to health insurance and lowered costs at the same time but how can they even attempt to form an opinion on the subject when they are bombarded daily, on all sides with endless propaganda and The Big Lie?

I think Americans should at least try keep the following in mind:

• If Canada and a host of other countries around the world can do this successfully, just exactly why can't the United States?
• If the citizens of Canada and a host of other countries are by-and-large satisfied with their universal health insurance coverage, why would Americans be so different?

These are good questions to ask because the wealthy powers-that-be are desperately attempting to avoid anyone asking them, let alone answering them, aren't they? That's why they try to keep all attention focussed on issues that are just Myths, after all.

As expected, for any of us South of the Border* who actually are paying attention, there were few surprises in this article. However, this one really took me by surprise.

At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Really??!!? I can't remember the last time I got to keep that much of my salary. Between federal, which takes 25% of my salary overall, then New York State at over 8% and New York City at another 4%, I don't get to keep anywhere near that. Yes, I realize that an average New York City salary is far from an average nationwide salary. Still though, I'm having a hard time imagining anyone above the poverty level in the U.S. keeping that much of their income.

Also, at the end of the day, let's not forget to add in sales tax, gasoline tax, and all of the other little taxes that really do add up at the end of the day.

Understand, I'm not necessarily complaining about my tax rate, or at least wouldn't be if I thought that U.S. megawealthy individuals paid their fair share, I'm merely disputing that number as take home pay. I do recognize that through taxes, I buy civilization.

* Yes, I know there are places where you can head south or southerly from the U.S. and end up in Canada. I even know that not all of them are in Alaska.

Im going to make a point here..
the Canada system almost didnt work..
the first few years it was a SHOT in the foot.
IT LEAK money like a hole to HELL..
Until things got PATCHED and stabilized..

NOW,
consider the corps in the USA, trying to BACKDOOR the whole system.  SUCK out every bit of money WHILE they can.
MAKE they NEW system SEEM, not to be working.
THINK about all those that NEED MEDICAL HELP NOW...or have GOTTEN help..
JUMPING on the system to get THINGS FIXED...or wondering IF' they need to PAY back that $100,000 BILL they got in the last year..
ALSO understand..
HOW are new and experimental practices going to be learned and taught..WHO is going to pay for the NEW...

MSCOT:

Iv only heard of 1 country, that takes out 60-70% of wages out of your WAGES...after that, there are NO OTHER TAXES..NOTHING MORE..
which is kinda weird..but entertaining.
Raise wages do the POOR can pay tax BACK to the country.  when the country could just MAKE the extra cash.
Why raise wages for TAX unless there is a way to NOT pay the tax.

I see a number of errors in the article, which maybe as a result of the author no longer residing in Canada and not having current experience.

Taxes in Canada are not equal trough out the various Provinces and Territories and also the coverage varies depending on the specific jurisdiction and what they have negotiated with their own Medical Association for coverage and at what the current fee rate shall be. This is also colored by the Transfer Payments from the Federal Gov't to each of the
Provinces for the Canada Health Act.

And as one other poster noted, our taxes are higher than what the author claimed when you consider ALL taxation.

The cumbersomeness of the bureaucracy in Canada's Health Care System is not known and it is not transparent in a number of ways. One of the major differences that tends to make any comparison impossible is that Canada's Constitution, The British North America Act of the British Parliament in Westminster, England and as repatriated to Canada by PM Pierre Trudeau, requires that ALL taxes, fees, licenses, excise, and or monies owed and paid to the Federal Government must be deposited into a Consolidated Revenue Fund, and that no dedication of revenues raised maybe allotted to any specific project or plan. Also the Canada Health Act prohibits doctors working outside the system. So any fees charged by doctors for any service rendered must only be for items not on the approved fee schedule as negotiated by each province with its own College of Physicians and Surgeons for that province.

The 1% overhead is in serious jeopardy with the current projects under way to put health records online province wide. We currently have had some serious cost over runs and huge contracts awarded un-tendered in Toronto with 2 or 3 people having to resign or be fired! The end result of this mess has not been written yet! [at least one American contractor is involved, I believe]

 To be insured in Canada, you have to apply immediately after gaining Landed Status, then coverage begins 3 months afterward, if the application is validated. If you move from one province to another, you must apply immediately, because of this 3 month waiting period, but your previous province covers you for 3 month after leaving.
If you apply for Refugee Status and are accepted, then I believe you gain immediate coverage, but I maybe wrong on that one. Refugee Status is also a form of Welfare Status in some cases.

The author is incorrect about pre-authorization. If your doctor says you need a test or procedure, some of these require that the healthcare provincial bureaucracy pre-authorize payment or the doctor maybe left holding the bag, since he is not allowed to charge you independently! Also, if I go to Urgent Care, I better only have one item, and not two since they only get paid for one visit per day! [I know this one personally!]

If I want an appointment with my Family Physician in our 2nd largest clinic locally which I have patronized for 45 years, I have to book it some 5 months ahead, but I can walk into Urgent Care and wait about 1/2 to 1 1/2 hours to be served. If it is after hours [9 PM], I have to go to the Emergency Ward of the local hospital and that wait can be as much as 4 to 6 hours depending on the current situation. Because I am a Senior Citizen, I am on the Pharmaceutical Plan which the Federal Gov't Funds, and the Provincial Healthcare administers. They control which drugs are paid for, and it is usually the cheaper generic, which the druggist has to then get permission by phone from the prescribing doctor to substitute!

 Recently, I got some frying spatter in the corner of my eye and after eating went to the Emerge because the eye white had turned very red. The staff in the Emergency Ward triage desk were able to bring up on line every prescription I had been issued in the past 5 years! And that was because the Government paid, but each prescription issued I have to pay $6.11 as the minimum fee after I pay a family $100.xx fee once a year. I deal with a large drug store chain, but by law, only the store which I present my prescriptions at is allowed to keep that on file, and cannot share that with any other store in their chain or any competitor, yet any hospital in the province call bring that info up online! NOW THAT IS BUREAUCRACY IN THE NAME OF PATIENT CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY!

Something else that does not sit right with me. If I or a neighbor need an MRI, or a CAT SCAN, once the doctor or specialist books that, the wait maybe as much as 4, 6 or more weeks. But If I am Roy Halladay, and I twist my left pinky as I come off the mound on a pitch, and the team physician and the manager think I need an MRI, I get it that night, paid for by the team [that would be the Blow Joys, they lost again today!]

Some of our health care does not fall under the Canada Heath Act, obviously. Such as all those commercial drivers medicals and urine screen tests. I can get a medical in about an hour or two if I go to a walk in clinic that performs drivers medicals, but I have to pay for it, usually anywhere from $90.xx to $120.xx or $150.xx. Of all of the urine tests I have taken for pre-employment, or random checks, I think I paid for only one or two. That is because the trucking company could write those off, plus they wanted control of the results and required they be mailed direct to them! I never had to provide one to a police service, thanx to no serious accidents to require the report.

The myth about Canadians being out of pocket for US service is partially true. Often the Canadian Province does not cover the full extent of the invoice incurred in the USA. All normal, thoughtful Canadians do not enter the USA with out top up insurance, plus medivac coverage. That is especially so for the routine commercial and business travelers, plus the retired "Snow Birds"!

As for unmet health needs, there are many Canadians who do not have a family doctor and can't find one. Several cities here in Southern Ontario of the 150K population size are generally short in the order of 40 physicians. There is a serious shortage and it is growing because many of the "baby boomer" era physicians are about to retire including my own doctor. This is the wealthy industrial heartland, so I can just imagine the shortage in the Northern "Boonies".

When I had a hernia while driving commercially, I went to the hospital In Hearst, Ont. thinking that I had an appendicitis. The Emerge doctor was an immigrant from North Africa, who could speak both English and French, so he was more valuable on the application to get into Canada, plus he was British trained, so had far less trouble qualifying to Canadian Medical Standards. [he laughed and showed me that it was the wrong side for appendicitis!]

Now for my personal assessment of the US problem. There is a huge paranoia about socialism and socialized medicine that is partly warranted by the failings of the British system. But the real problem is that the piece meal "for profit" private medical insurance system that can deny anyone coverage due to pre-existing conditions. In Canada, pre-existing conditions are covered by law, everyone must be covered. And this is where the US system falls down. If the law required that everyone be covered, then the premiums costs would be averagable over a much larger base.
 Part of the ethic in Canada is that everyone must not be denied proper service and that service is not a license to gouge the population of every possible nickle they can ever make in their whole life! It is Corporate Greed that is the monster which needs to be corralled and hobbled.

 The real killer is when it is far cheaper to go on welfare and be treated on medicare than it is to pay your bills and go back to work, that is what kills the nation's work ethic.

I hope this sheds some more light on this compel subject. Also some years back before our health cards got facial identification included, I was told by 3 nurses at suppertime in Longways Truck Stop, Fond Du Lac, Wisc. that I could auction that card in my wallet for $3K USF right there and then! I told them, that with my rare unique name, forget about that, as it would not work on several points!

Gill,
GOOD comments..

Its also the thought that says a PERSON with a PROBLEM should get FIXED and put back to work..
Over the idea that "PAY ME" and "Whats your medical coverage" in the USA is..

Also, PREEXISTING condition, in a few HMO's hit a BOTTOM when 1 corp refused Diabetic treatment..  BECAUSE HIS PARENTS were diabetic..