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  Why people do nothing about climate change
« on: July 23, 2009, 08:01:34 AM » by Peter R
An interesting essay on the reluctance of people to do something about climate change: http://tinyurl.com/l5u94w.

[rant]
Personally, I prefer "global warming" to "climate change" -- the latter seems to have been popularised to make the subject sound somehow less threatening. I think it should be made to sound more threatening. Then maybe more people would do something about it.
[/rant]

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  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 10:28:57 AM » by Misanthropic Scott
: Peter R  July 23, 2009, 08:01:34 AM
An interesting essay on the reluctance of people to do something about climate change: http://tinyurl.com/l5u94w.

[rant]
Personally, I prefer "global warming" to "climate change" -- the latter seems to have been popularised to make the subject sound somehow less threatening. I think it should be made to sound more threatening. Then maybe more people would do something about it.
[/rant]

I'm short on time to read the doc for the moment. The term climate change is an acknowledgment that not all locations will warm. Some will actually cool, for example Europe, as the Gulf Stream continues to slow (already documented at 30% slower than before). I prefer global warming as well since the term is more well known and still accurate in that global average temp is increasing. However, the reason for climate change as a term has nothing to do with being less threatening. I just wanted to make that minor point. Unfortunately, the deniers/skeptics have also latched onto it as a sign that the science is not really showing warming, which is patently false. Warming is real, happening, human caused, and more severe than all of the models have been forecasting.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. -- from moveon.org.
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 12:44:37 PM » by Cináed

I have to partially disagree with the two previous posts and state my preference for the descriptor 'climate change', rather than 'global warming'.

It's very parochial reasoning. Where I live, we've had essentially no summer for almost five years now and some of the worst winters ever for the past five years. It's getting colder all year. If you ask local people about the dangers of 'global warming', you'll get get the standard laugh-out-loud and the response that everyone is in favor of it, if only it would actually happen. People tend to believe what they see with their own eyes and feel on their own skin.

Telling people the opposite of what they're personally experiencing is nothing but an invitation to the sort of ridicule you read on Dvorak Uncensored or see on FOX News, whenever 'global warming' is mentioned.

Of course Scott is correct and I know some places will get colder, while other places get hotter and some places will get wetter, while other places get drier etcetera. I also know the Arctic Ocean is getting bigger in a hurry because there's less ice and the Inuit are very worried about wildlife dying off and their way of life changing for the worse. I'm pretty sure the words 'global warming' would strike the chord of fear you're both seeking in the Inuit but it's not going to work with people whose personal experience is the opposite.

Do As I Say, Not As I Do

I read the article and it seems fairly clear to me why at least some, if not all climate activists say one thing and do the exact opposite. The problem is so big, they don't believe their minuscule activities, like flying a family half way around the world and back to enjoy a scuba diving vacation, can possibly make any difference and besides, why should they and their families suffer deprivation if huge corporations and governments are doing nothing at all now and will likely do nothing at all until it's far too late to make any difference? They're just being realistic.

I'm not sure, as a species, we're intelligent enough to survive. I see evidence of 'global warming' every day on the news on TV but apparently we're determined to refuse to recognize it as evidence, if recognizing it is going to cause us any inconvenience at all.

Cleansing

As Scott has sometimes suggested, perhaps it would be better if humans didn't survive. Perhaps, as I have often said, Gaea has faced much worse problems than mere humans and solved them all. Think about that for a minute...

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America's health care system is neither healthy, caring, nor a system.
~ Walter Cronkite
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 03:07:24 PM » by ECA
Why people do nothing about climate change

Lets see if I can answer THE QUESTION..

Didnt I pay someone to DO IT??
DIDNT I pay my taxes so that the GOV could help/protect/and DECIDE the proper things to do???
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  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 03:13:01 AM » by Peter R
: ECA  July 23, 2009, 03:07:24 PM
Didnt I pay someone to DO IT??
DIDNT I pay my taxes so that the GOV could help/protect/and DECIDE the proper things to do???

The theory is fine but the reality is different: the measures needed to attentuate global warming (it's already too late to stop it entirely) are so drastic that no politician dares contemplete them for fear -- probably justified -- of losing votes.

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  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 06:02:26 AM » by Misanthropic Scott
: Cináed  July 23, 2009, 12:44:37 PM
I have to partially disagree with the two previous posts and state my preference for the descriptor 'climate change', rather than 'global warming'.

It's very parochial reasoning. Where I live, we've had essentially no summer for almost five years now and some of the worst winters ever for the past five years. It's getting colder all year. If you ask local people about the dangers of 'global warming', you'll get get the standard laugh-out-loud and the response that everyone is in favor of it, if only it would actually happen. People tend to believe what they see with their own eyes and feel on their own skin.

Ack!! Congratulations. You've just sold me. Climate change it is. It is, as I stated earlier, the more accurate term anyway. I just worry when idiots say things like "they stopped calling it global warming because now it's cooling" or "the climate has been changing for all of Earth's history". While the latter is actually true, of course, it ignores the current rate of change, its cause (us), and its effects which will likely dramatically increase the already tremendous human-caused mass extinction underway.

: Cináed  July 23, 2009, 12:44:37 PM
I read the article and it seems fairly clear to me why at least some, if not all climate activists say one thing and do the exact opposite. The problem is so big, they don't believe their minuscule activities, like flying a family half way around the world and back to enjoy a scuba diving vacation, can possibly make any difference and besides, why should they and their families suffer deprivation if huge corporations and governments are doing nothing at all now and will likely do nothing at all until it's far too late to make any difference? They're just being realistic.

I might have to disagree here. There is a concept of leading by example. And, every little bit does matter. I also travel. I buy terrapass for my car and for plane tickets. It's not quite as good as not going, since RECs are not as sure to reduce real carbon output as simply not driving or flying. But, I do a lot in my everyday life as well as throwing money at some of my mess. I've reduced my electric use 16% year over year, for example. That said ...

I'm Doing My Inconsequential Part For The Environment

: Cináed  July 23, 2009, 12:44:37 PM
I'm not sure, as a species, we're intelligent enough to survive. I see evidence of 'global warming' every day on the news on TV but apparently we're determined to refuse to recognize it as evidence, if recognizing it is going to cause us any inconvenience at all.

Cleansing

As Scott has sometimes suggested, perhaps it would be better if humans didn't survive. Perhaps, as I have often said, Gaea has faced much worse problems than mere humans and solved them all. Think about that for a minute...

I'm not sure intelligence is a survival characteristic. Perhaps if we had less intelligence we would be more likely to survive. Vonnegut said something to that effect in Galapagos, if I remember correctly. He pointed out that humans have exactly the wrong sized brain. If we had bigger brains, we might be smart enough not to get into all of the trouble we do. If we had smaller brains, we couldn't get into all of the trouble we do.

As for the Gaea concept, I'm not a big fan of it. Earth is not a living organism since it is not reproducing. Other than that though, yes, we are a blight on the planet. We will not violate the laws of biology. Our short term attempts to do so will be stopped, if not by us then by natural law. If we stop attempting to violate the laws of biology we have a chance of survival.

I'm not optimistic.
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Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control. -- Paul Ehrlich

I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. -- from moveon.org.
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 07:17:35 AM » by Peter R
: Misanthropic Scott  July 24, 2009, 06:02:26 AM
Ack!! Congratulations. You've just sold me. Climate change it is. It is, as I stated earlier, the more accurate term anyway.

I disagree. "Global warming" means that the average temperate of the entire Earth is increasing, which is exactly what's happening. "Climate change" doesn't indicate the direction in which the climate is changing nor whether said climate is global or regional.

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Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 10:29:01 AM » by ECA
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 11:21:04 AM » by James Hill
Wow, you guys are still wading in the shallow end of the pool. Allow me to dominate this thread: Think of it as "the good old days".

Intelligence is a survival characteristic. The intelligent have to keep some sheep around.

Guess what you guys are.

James Hill.
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  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 12:19:12 PM » by ECA
Hill

For each strong person there are 10 that need protection.  NOT saying that those that need protection arnt smart, or that the strong person is the intelligent..

Its just nice to have a few around you that CAN do other jobs rather then PROTECTION.

After awhile the smart ones may control or HELP control the group.  But there are still alot more people that NEED to be taken care of..as they make the work load better.

The problem in our nation, is that the SMART person HATES (TRYING) educating others, over and over and over.  so the idiots end up with the JOB of politics.  These end up being the folks that ONLY know what they are told, from day to day, the facts can change.  MOST do not, CAN not make independent opinions.  This is as bad as, getting 100 scientists to discuss ANY TOPIC and debate the results.  They all have an idea, they all get results, and they all blame it on something ELSE.
WE are the problem..as these folks are supposed to represent OUR NEEDS for our states, but WHO, is talking to them?  WHO is helping them decide?  WHO tells them RIGHT and WRONG??

Think about the RICH Robber barons, and HOW they got rich, and HOW their LIFE Made them WHAT they became..Then look at their kids..and the grand kids.. MOST of them couldnt START from scratch/bottom if they DIDNT HAVE THE Grand-dads money.
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2009, 03:09:18 PM » by Cináed
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America's health care system is neither healthy, caring, nor a system.
~ Walter Cronkite
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 01:52:25 AM » by KD Martin
 Cináed, keep a few cans of that real handy, we may need more. Thanks to James Hill for bumping the page view count.

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  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2009, 05:16:57 AM » by Peter R
: James Hill  July 24, 2009, 11:21:04 AM
Wow, you guys are still wading in the shallow end of the pool. Allow me to dominate this thread: Think of it as "the good old days".

Intelligence is a survival characteristic. The intelligent have to keep some sheep around.

Guess what you guys are.

James Hill.

Thank you for your cogent, relevant and above all intelligent contribution. We Untermenschen are always grateful for such wise guidance from our superiors.

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Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2009, 01:42:10 PM » by Faxon
I am NOT doing nothing about "climate change" "global warming" "air pollution" "co2 emissions" "flatulence" "respiration" "human activity" or "bullshit"

I am paying more taxes, making that total fuckface AL GORE rich, and keeping Nancy Pelosi in facelifts.
I have no choice, thanks to assholes like previous posters.
Thanks a bunch.
The Earth has had Ice Ages, Warming Periods, Extinctions, and catastrophic earthquakes, Deccan Flats types of lava flows, huge floods such as created the Scablands, and none of the them were caused my me driving my pickup truck. So fuck all you people, and I can assure you, I will do all I can to WARM THIS EARTH! Including farting in your faces.
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  Re: Why people do nothing about climate change
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2009, 03:34:32 PM » by duddits-fairuse
: Peter R  July 25, 2009, 05:16:57 AM
: James Hill  July 24, 2009, 11:21:04 AM
Wow, you guys are still wading in the shallow end of the pool. Allow me to dominate this thread: Think of it as "the good old days".

Intelligence is a survival characteristic. The intelligent have to keep some sheep around.

Guess what you guys are.

James Hill.

Thank you for your cogent, relevant and above all intelligent contribution. We Untermenschen are always grateful for such wise guidance from our superiors.

Heavy sigh! Most if not all people get their information via TV NEWS. They get only a thin slice of facts glued with political-mayo to fresh marketing bread.

How many people {like my mom} will watch and or read how the arithmetic of energy needed defines the solution not the political/marketing feel good speeches. Physics is not even a 5 second last word on carbon and climate.

Just tested these links and they are ok in Safari 4. May I suggest you watch them in top (latest) to bottom to get a feel for how policy/politics change effected the lecture. Links from Dr. Nathan Lewis, Caltech; The lewis Group - Global Energy Perspective

Chemical Challenges in Renewable Energy PDF

2008 - 1:49:10 JPL von Kármán Lecture Series
Where in the World Will Our Energy Come From

2005 - Caltech Watson Lecture Series, May 2005
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Journal of a High-Tech Cat & twitter @fairuse
{Rev C May 21, 2010 08:40:57 Z}
 (Read 5642 times) [1] 2
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