http://playspent.org/

interesting program.

Surviving is one thing, but excelling is another. Being poor is more than a state of mind, lacking some or all the basics sucks big time. But having excessive amounts of everything and anything plus not giving a hoot about one's fellow man is worse than criminal, it is inhuman!

We have CHANGED the basic concept of SURVIVAL.
The REQUIREMENTS to live are very small. 

Protection from elements. 
Shelter.
Food.
Safety.

For some reason, I thought these basic requirements were Added. to our Forefathers comments someplace.

But, NOW..
Protection from elements- Electricity, Gas, Insulation in home..(TAXED)
Shelter-(TAXED)
Food-(TAXED)
Safety-???  Got insurance?
JOB- (TAXED)
CAR-   cant go hunting humans, have to get to the WILD some how..(TAXED)

Food is taxed?  Where?  How much?

But to me the concern is:  if you got nothing, just where are you supposed to sleep at night except jail?  We aren't very nice to the failures in our society.

We have CHANGED the basic concept of SURVIVAL.
The REQUIREMENTS to live are very small. 

Protection from elements. 
Shelter.
Food.
Safety.

For some reason, I thought these basic requirements were Added. to our Forefathers comments someplace.

But, NOW..
Protection from elements- Electricity, Gas, Insulation in home..(TAXED)
Shelter-(TAXED)
Food-(TAXED)
Safety-???  Got insurance?
JOB- (TAXED)
CAR-   cant go hunting humans, have to get to the WILD some how..(TAXED)

Just for the record, there has to be some taxes levied on some of the necessities of life to pay for the common infrastructure that everyone requires. I don't mean over taxation, and wasteful lavish projects, but everyone needs to recognize their responsibility to the common good. All of those whose cheat on the system, by hiding income offshore, or misreporting, etc. are freeloaders! Those who get huge lavish projects approved and take a huge cut of the contract(s) are also freeloaders. If a sports team needs a new stadium or arena, then let private interests build it, but don't tax children, grandmothers, widows, etc. for your over inflated ego trips!

Groceries aren't taxed in Texas.  Restaurant food is.

the TAXES paid to employees, is passed to the cost of the goods.
The taxes for the UTILITIES are passed onto the price of goods/food/...
The Tax on property, is passed onto you..
The tax to flush the toilets and pay for Sewer, is passed onto you..

So, you arent taxed in texas?

Surviving is one thing, but excelling is another. Being poor is more than a state of mind, lacking some or all the basics sucks big time. But having excessive amounts of everything and anything plus not giving a hoot about one's fellow man is worse than criminal, it is inhuman!

The problem is defining excessive. Didn't they try that in 1917? You don't need such a large apartment for your family of 4. You should live in one bedroom and we'll move 2 more families into the other rooms. You can share the kitchen and bathroom.

I'm about as liberal as they come. But, let's not get into defining too much as criminal. It's too hard to say what's too much and who gets to decide and worse, redistribute at gunpoint while taking the leftovers.

The right answer is a consumption tax. Don't tax income at all since income is good. Tax consumption. It also gets rid of the tax exemptions.

Of course, certain basics will need to be untaxed and tax rates may be higher on luxury items. But, that's just implementation details. In principle, taxing consumption is far better than taxing income. Have a problem with the implementation? Fine. I also have a problem with our current implementation. I think what we have now is a lot worse, even if we don't get consumption taxes exactly perfect and fair.

Food is taxed?  Where?  How much?

But to me the concern is:  if you got nothing, just where are you supposed to sleep at night except jail?  We aren't very nice to the failures in our society.

Food is taxed where I live. Just define food. All prepared foods and restaurant food are taxed. Soda is (and should be) taxed. Basic unprepared food is generally not taxed where I live.

As for being nice to the homeless, I agree with you completely. Homeless shelters are generally so bad that people would rather live outdoors in winter. Many would like to live in the train tunnels. So, of course, we fence off the unused train tunnels here in NYC. Else, someone might lead a merely awful life eating tunnel bunnies in abandoned rail tunnels. It's much better to have them truly starving with no shelter at all. How else can we prove that dropping out of society is a bad idea?

ANY FOOD, you do not grow, feed, process, ship, resell, YOURSELF has taxes on it.

You pay for the persons/trucks/harvesters/farmers...taxes
You pay for the washers/cleaners/gleaners/processors..taxes
You pay for the Shipping/handling/FUEL..taxes
You pay for the reseller/stocking/receiver/checker/janitor..taxes

You also pay for all the Electrical power ALL these use..taxes
You pay all the sewer taxes, irrigation taxes..

And on top of ALL THIS...the taxes that upper management pays...comes OUT of your pocket.

The tax at the restaurant? ON TOP of all this...is EXTRA.  Your are rich enough to EAT OUTSIDE your home...TAX.

Excelling is another subject..

But, if you look..
Once a person is comfortable with their environment, they Tend to advance.
There is also the reverse.  but, MOST that do not worry about SURVIVAL/houseing/transport...have more Mental time to THINK/SEE/CONTEMPLATE and make better decisions.

The difficulty is when you are kept TO BUSY to sit down and LOOK AROUND.  we focus on what is happening TO US..

Scott--while traveling I sometimes get caught without a room at night.  sometimes I'm left with finding a coffee shop, othertimes just "up at night with no where to go."  Always "miserable."  Always fearful of just "going to sleep" and hope I'm left alone.

Pro's and Con's as I constantly recognize.  "Fair" to provide "free" pods for people to sleep safely at night?  Or does this just encourage people to be lazy?  And even if it does so encourage, is the harm that great to provide a minimum level of humanity to our brothers?  And as you say, if we aren't going to act positively does that really justify acting negatively like fencing (with locks?) off the unused tunnels?  Yes, I can imagine why this is done, but so much more I can imagine why it should not be done.

Choices, Society.  No choices.

Scott--while traveling I sometimes get caught without a room at night.  sometimes I'm left with finding a coffee shop, othertimes just "up at night with no where to go."  Always "miserable."  Always fearful of just "going to sleep" and hope I'm left alone.

Pro's and Con's as I constantly recognize.  "Fair" to provide "free" pods for people to sleep safely at night?  Or does this just encourage people to be lazy?  And even if it does so encourage, is the harm that great to provide a minimum level of humanity to our brothers?  And as you say, if we aren't going to act positively does that really justify acting negatively like fencing (with locks?) off the unused tunnels?  Yes, I can imagine why this is done, but so much more I can imagine why it should not be done.

Choices, Society.  No choices.

Something like 9 or 10% of America do sleep in pods most nights or days! It called a bunk on the back part of the semi-tractor's cab. If they can afford the fuel, it can be warm, and gently vibrate with the engine idle set up for proper top end lubrication! Some of these freight jockeys have barely enough to buy food, but they belong to the last bastion of freedom......the open road....without a boss breathing down their neck. Each one knows that they are judged by their performance and not what the rest of "office" does! Most of the time they are left alone by the would be robbers, hi-jackers, etc. since it is well known that numerous are former military and probably are "carrying". I knew one guy who instead of a pet dog or cat, had a Boa Constrictor for a bunk mate! He was not allowed to cross the International Borders with that!
I have also slept in some very dangerous locations when I was "over the road"! 2 1/2 blocks away from the Jersey City Truckstop, but inside the Petfood supply depots security fence, or at the corner of Michigan Ave. and Clarke St., Detroit, but inside the fence docked inside the bldg., etc. It is cool to have plant security personnel cover your snooze

: bobbo  February 22, 2011, 04:58:40 PM

Scott--while traveling I sometimes get caught without a room at night.  sometimes I'm left with finding a coffee shop, othertimes just "up at night with no where to go."  Always "miserable."  Always fearful of just "going to sleep" and hope I'm left alone.

Pro's and Con's as I constantly recognize.  "Fair" to provide "free" pods for people to sleep safely at night?  Or does this just encourage people to be lazy?  And even if it does so encourage, is the harm that great to provide a minimum level of humanity to our brothers?  And as you say, if we aren't going to act positively does that really justify acting negatively like fencing (with locks?) off the unused tunnels?  Yes, I can imagine why this is done, but so much more I can imagine why it should not be done.

Choices, Society.  No choices.

Something like 9 or 10% of America do sleep in pods most nights or days! It called a bunk on the back part of the semi-tractor's cab. If they can afford the fuel, it can be warm, and gently vibrate with the engine idle set up for proper top end lubrication! Some of these freight jockeys have barely enough to buy food, but they belong to the last bastion of freedom......the open road....without a boss breathing down their neck. Each one knows that they are judged by their performance and not what the rest of "office" does! Most of the time they are left alone by the would be robbers, hi-jackers, etc. since it is well known that numerous are former military and probably are "carrying". I knew one guy who instead of a pet dog or cat, had a Boa Constrictor for a bunk mate! He was not allowed to cross the International Borders with that!
I have also slept in some very dangerous locations when I was "over the road"! 2 1/2 blocks away from the Jersey City Truckstop, but inside the Petfood supply depots security fence, or at the corner of Michigan Ave. and Clarke St., Detroit, but inside the fence docked inside the bldg., etc. It is cool to have plant security personnel cover your snooze

Wasn't that one of the industries where an independent trucker could make a good living ... until deregulation killed the industry? I don't have the details on that and have been curious about it for a while. I have been under the impression that those who could afford their own rig years ago (1970s and earlier) had quite a decent livelihood.

Similarly, taxi drivers in NYC used to do pretty well too if they owned their own medallion, which was not uncommon. Few can afford to do so now. And, now that it's legal to rent out the medallions without ever having to drive them, something that had been done illegally for years, the drivers are squeezed even harder. It used to be that cabbies were mostly born in this country. In fact, neighbors I really didn't know growing up had a cab parked outside their house. They were able to have a nice house in the burbs on a cabby income. Now, it's a thing for recent immigrants sending money home to developing nations. From poor countries, it still looks like a decent living, but only to those from much poorer countries.