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  Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« on: May 18, 2007, 06:11:25 PM » by Kvolk
Mr Daws has postulated that Communism is successful in Cuba. One point I would make is that Cuba is a dictatorship not a Communist state and two how do you quantify success? One thing I have always noticed is that more people try to enter our country every year even when they know there is huge pressure to keep them out and that they are breaking the law. Second there are thousands fleeing Cuba every year....I think the people that live under the system understand the differences in the philosophies. That being said I think the ideas that Marx mentioned have some merit but they are not practical in a real world situation and I would once again offer that everyone that has lived under a Communist regime has tried to leave it.

Your points on gas and peoples behavior are accurate but don't reflect the realities of human behavior. Our current form of democracy and capitalism make the most sense with human behavior as we understand it. Unless of course you advocate changing human behavior by government fiat.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2007, 10:34:53 PM » by ECA
Can i ask you something?
Do you KNOW what the USA has done to that POOR country?
I suggest you look at that FIRST.
We have Banned,
We have Prohibited,
We have isolated that country from EVERYTHING.
We have made it so NO country in the America's will take them.
Little or NO exprot or IMPORT....

NOW think about the USA, and DOUBLE the population.  thats what will happen in the next 30-50 years...
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 06:02:31 AM » by Kvolk
ECA that is a very American centric point of view. Cuba as a robust trading relationship with Europe and Canada and until the 80's was heavily subsidized by the USSR. If your point is that the US should drop their embargo I agree with that but that doesn't change my view about the failure of the idealogy.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2007, 09:49:01 AM » by ECA
Robust is correct,
Europe has BUST the heck out of that nation.
Esp, sence no one is Allowed to leave, willingly.
And their closest Neibhor is WHOM??  Who HATES their royal GUTS??  that is Waiting for their Ruler to DIE and go to hell??

And if the USA was sharing with them, and useing the ports in Cuba, wouldnt they be doing MUCH better?
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2007, 07:40:38 PM » by Kvolk
They would be doing better if they were trading with us? Prove that's true please...I mean are some of the other nation's doing well because of that or not so well. Cuba is a supposed Communist country and they are a terrible place to live and much of that has to do with the leader and his supposed adherence to that philosophy.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 03:35:29 AM » by ECA
A population thats Like living in Chicago, in Straw huts...
the Exports cant be shipped to the nearest locations...
Trade mostly with Europe, which is costing them MORE, then the Exports.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html#Econ
REAd the bottom.
If they could start Some forms of Business, that WENT CORP controled and supply some SORT of work force...  Cuba used to be a 1/2 decent place.  but it was also Duty free Zone into the USA, and run by Corps, that spit on Any decent pay.
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2007, 06:46:13 AM » by Kvolk
It paints a dismal picture but those things exist because of the dictatorship government not because of the embargo by the US. The most significant issue is the exploitation of it's own people and that they are doing nothing significant to stop it. That to me is a pretty heavy indictment of the government and a significant point on shy that is a failed ideology.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2007, 10:34:08 AM » by ECA
why not the idea that NO country wants Anyone to LEAVE Cuba.  They dont have the education, business, Learning, schools...To go Anywhere...  And most of this was brought on in the 70's after the missle crisiss.  Which they were doing to get Advances in there country from russia, sence the USA didnt CARE about them....AND who put castro into office in the FIRST place.
Who put in about 30 Heads of state??
How many of those countries have Gone STUPID/WEIRD...
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2007, 01:41:39 PM » by Kvolk
I agree with your analysis not with the root cause. The cause the system of government they live under not US foreign policy, though that may exacerbate the problems. The problems you cite are systemic to that system of government and won't go away until there is a change in government. I would say look at how successful Costa Rica has been.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2007, 03:07:01 PM » by ECA
I know what you are saying...
SOME lenancy has to be given to the companies...  Let them have a few specials Leways.
Given them something to make them happy.

But, cuba had the chance to be a FREE harbor, to TAX FREE goods to be loaded and reshipped.  As with many locations.  It would be making money VERY well.  But Castro didnt think the USA, was backing him, and he needed assistance and improvements..
So what, he made a BAD decision...Why pick on him for 30 years...
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 05:58:56 AM » by Kvolk
I do wonder why the US has embargoed Cuba all these years. We have had multiple presidents from both parties uphold that ban for 30+ years. I still don't see Cuba as a successful economy even with out the embargo because they may say it's tax free but there are always taxes on products. Governments and taxes are like being alive and breathing they are inseparable though the Communist countries will try and dress it up as something else you still have duties import taxes etc to pay.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2007, 11:08:08 AM » by ECA
There are problems with communism, mostly based on the thought that they are NOT corp friendly.
But I see the Total reverse of that in the USA, to the point of Stupidity.
I even thought the Japaneese had some good ideas, untill I read about those working themselves to death, At their desks.
The middle east was doing interesting things, until they let ALL the corps in...

I can only see a decent nation that runs under WHATS needed...For what job.
The US gov used to Have their own SERVICES to supply what the nation needed, such as highways, construction, medical, Even the military DID their own work internally and trained soliders in a variety of Jobs.  But, we have farmed them out to the Corps, and are NOW paying through the nose to get things done.
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2007, 02:49:37 PM » by Kvolk
I totally agree the US government is way to big which causes all kinds of problems. My point about Communism is that it doesn't recognize the fact that basic human behavior crates a demand for a system like capitalism. Some people like to work constantly and expect to be able to reap the rewards. Others have other needs and those needs can change over time as well.Corporations are an out growth of that basic human drive so that the systems of rewards is more organized on a large scale but that creates inequalities as well because people don't function to well in large groups. It's to easy to hide bad behavior in large groups of people which is ultimately why Communism failed.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 07:12:46 PM » by ECA
I can see the reasons it fails...
But things must be shared, and its easy if the Poor worker gets incentive...
The main problems came when They created a tier system with TO MUCh spread in wealth.
WHICH is happening in the USA also.
THINK about the USA for a second...and what is considered POVERTY level.
$30,000 a year is considered LOW paying.
Iv never seen $30k...I never saw $15k...
That was in 1993.
And I know ALOt that still dont break $20k....WHICH is only $10 per hour...  And $15 per hour is abit RARE...In this area.

Think of the USSR system that didnt HELP the poor...  and the RICH were the worst at it...
THAT alone killed there country, and then the NEED for OIL, and Afghanistan war...Murdered them.
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If all the world is a stage, I am the target of tomatoes and fresh fruit.
Hemorrhoids Unite, the first arsehole to raise his hand is president.

  Re: Why Communism is a failed ideaology
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2007, 05:08:51 AM » by Kvolk
You bring up a great point about how some one can earn a livable wage working for some one else. The soviets pretended to care about that then shot anyone that brought up a dissenting opinion.
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"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" - Twain

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